For background, read here.
I was really thankful for the following comments from Tim Bayly, because they sparked a wonderful impromptu Bible Study and discussion this morning. I had written, in the context of serving God being our highest calling, that:
Even the heathen can be kitchen wives.
Tim quoted this and then said:
Yes, and the woman who doesn't provide for her own is worse than a pagan: "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Timothy 5:8).
Of course, I took this to mean that he was referring to Carolyn Custis James since, after all, she was under discussion and several had taken issue with her statement that she was not a "kitchen wife". (See here.)
I found this particular application of 1 Timothy 5:8 to be quite novel. More about that later. Tim finished his comments with:
Orthodoxy without orthopraxy is unbelief. And for women as for men, orthopraxy is defined by God in His Word according to one's sexuality. In other words, we can't obey God's calling to each of us while denying the part of His calling that has particular application to us as man or woman. This is the heart of this discussion, but the one thing Rebecca and her feminist sisterhood will never quite address. Somehow, it always seems to get lost in the shuffle.
But in the Bible, it's at the center of New Testament ethics. None of this docetic, gnostic, disembodied, non-incarnate, transcendent, larger-than-life, gender-neutered, asexual gobbledygook for the Apostles. Oh no.
Rather, gender-specific words, gender-specific commands, gender-specific actions...
Well...yes and no.
The center of New Testament ethics? I have never, ever heard it put that way before. Usually I have heard the center of NT ethics defined as loving God with all our being and loving our neighbor as ourselves --- without any mention of our sexuality.
At any rate, it seems obvious to me that not every command is gender-specific. We cannot go through our Bibles and mark every command with either pink or blue ink, much as some people (sadly, myself included when I feel particularly weak or overwhelmed) might like to do so. "Love your enemies" --- is that pink or blue? Isn't it enough for my husband to obey it without me having to struggle with that one as well? What about "Love one another"? What about "Pray without ceasing"? What about "Put on the full armor of God"? When I obey "Pray without ceasing", do I get to do it in a different, feminine sort of way? Do I get some sort of pass on "be strong and courageous" because I'm a weaker vessel?
One of my former pastors actually met some wives who claimed that they didn't have to love their husbands. After all, the Bible said, "Husbands, love your wives." Women did not have that sort of a command. Yes, older women were to teach younger women how to love their husbands, but there was never a command anywhere that wives had to apply these lessons.
"What about 'love your neighbor as yourself'?" asked the pastor. The women looked at him as if he'd taken leave of his senses.
"Prove to us," they said, "that this is addressed to women. In the context, there is no indication that women were the audience. We are not feminists and we don't believe in claiming that everything written to men applies to us."
Apparently they saw a lot more gender-specific commands and actions than I do.
But on to what, unless I am reading him incorrectly, is Tim Bayly's assertion that not being a kitchen wife means one is not providing for one's own. When I asked my husband what he thought this verse meant (without prejudicing him with Tim's new interpretation/application) he --- as I should have known he would --- encouraged us all to read it in context. I'd like to encourage everyone to do the same. We read 1 Timothy 5:3-16, although it might be helpful to read the wider context as well.
We were very convicted, especially since we have widows in our extended family. While none of them are homeless and starving, what does God require of us? What would honor Him? Do we truly share His passion for justice and mercy?
At the end of our wonderful discussion, that also included some broader applications of what it meant to provide for one's family, I asked my husband if he thought this might apply to a woman who did not do the cooking for her family. (I explained that, to my knowledge, no one was starving due to her lack of cooking; obviously they were all eating food cooked by someone.) I wish I'd had my camera with me to snap the incredulous look on his face. He actually thought this was yet another example of my bizarre sense of humor!
"Did you really get that out of the passage?" he asked.
Um, no...but I tend to be rather simple at times, and rather concrete in my thinking. However, I've heard a pretty good number of sermons on that passage, and none of them have ever applied the passage in the way that Tim Bayly did. I'm not saying he's wrong; I'm just saying that this is a new application to me and raises a lot of questions. Unfortunately, those questions are not ones that he wants to see asked on his blog.
Orthodoxy without orthopraxy is unbelief. And for women as for men, orthopraxy is defined by God in His Word according to one's sexuality. In other words, we can't obey God's calling to each of us while denying the part of His calling that has particular application to us as man or woman. This is the heart of this discussion, but the one thing Rebecca and her feminist sisterhood will never quite address. Somehow, it always seems to get lost in the shuffle.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that is getting lost in the shuffle is the following, which is based on multiple self-reports of the individual discussed below, sent to email lists, both public and private.
There was a married woman with a high school daughter. She found an email group which was devoted to a particular biblical discernment issue, and was devoted to biblical accuracy. She loved the group, and started posting and posting and posting. To the point where she once said her husband and daughter banged on the door, wanting to know when she would get off the computer and fix dinner.
In recent years this woman also has gone on solo (meaning unaccompanied by her husband) missions trips of short duration. She also teaches music and studies linguistics.
Except for the time on the internet that she claimed once irritated her family, this woman sounds like she could be the "Ezer Poster Woman of the Year." I'm serious. Her lifestyle as a Christian woman is precicely what Carolyn James is seeking to foster in many women as she leads her Synergy conferences.
The woman's name is Donna Louise Carlaw.
Rebecca, do you now understand why I DON'T post on the Bayly blog? There Tim is, talking against Carolyn James and demanding "orthopraxy" in the matter of sexuality.
There is Donna Carlaw, cheering Tim on, all the while living a life that Carolyn James would laud for women.
Rebecca, I don't want to discourage you from posting there . . . but . . . as I told you, I get enough amusement from reading about Donna's life, which I KNOW that C. James would approve of as an example of what Synergy is seeking to produce, that I just read there and don't comment.
Online, Donna is on a Patriarchal uber-tear. Off-line, she is an "Ezer Warrior Princess for the Lord." One that Carolyn James would approve of.
"In other words, we can't obey God's calling to each of us while denying the part of His calling that has particular application to us as man or woman."
ReplyDeleteI just want to make sure I understand what he is saying here.
Our calling as women is to cook food in the kitchen? We are called to be "kitchen wives"?
I know this will come as a surprise, but could anyone show me this from Scripture?
Why didn't anyone let Jesus know that he wasn't supposed to be a "kitchen wife"? After all, he cooked breakfast for His disciples.
Why didn't Jesus rebuke Mary for not fulfilling her role as "kitchen wife" and for denying that part of her calling that has *particular* application to her as a woman? Why did He rebuke Martha for performing that alleged particular application to her as a woman and for not choosing the "better thing"?
At the Last Supper, where were the "kitchen women" who were carrying out their particular application as women by serving the men-folk their dinner?
Why weren't the women called forward by Jesus to serve the loaves and fishes to the 5,000 as part of their particular calling as women?
Why were MALES appointed to SERVE food to the widows so that the apostles could be freed up from that duty in order to devote themselves to the word? Why weren't the women serving tables? Surely the widows were not all crippled and unwell where they couldn't make their own food? Where are these so-called "kitchen wives"?
It seems that Jesus did not know this or He would have stressed this to the women who followed Him and supported His ministry from their own means. The women weren't along to perform that particular duty of kitchen duties and laundry but to support Him financially! Oh, they probably helped out alongside the disciples but it doesn't seem like these particular domestic duties were sliced and diced up to the women.
What if you have a guy who really loves to cook and be in the kitchen? Is he transgendered? Is he violating God's particular application of his calling to be served?
Obviously Tim doesn't really believe this because of the post about the man from his church who is in a wheelchair. The single young men are being trained in the kitchen to make wonderful homemade meals for the other guys and he said this will be a blessing to their future wives.
Carolyn explained what she meant by that term and it helped me to understand a lot better the context of her usage of "kitchen wife". It is ridiculous for some to gossip and libel Carolyn by saying that she neglects her family and hires out illegals to do her woman's work!
I love to cook and be in the kitchen. I almost live in the kitchen and the laundry room. :-) I am much more a Martha than a Mary to my own shame. I am working on being a Mary, preferring the better thing. I am pleased to create all sorts of dishes for my family but I don't think they look at it as my particular application of being a woman. I grew up with very manly men who spent a great deal of time in the kitchen making gourmet food for their families. My grandfather was a head-chef for a very nice restaurant for 30 years. Would we call him a "kitchen husband"?
After all, it is only food. Nothing to get stressed about. Maybe Martha learned to sit at the feet of Jesus and when the teaching time was done, everyone pitched in to get dinner on the table? Just like the feeding of the 5,000.
My father, hardly a godly man, although he became a believer on his deathbed at the age of 50 when he died of alcoholism, made sure that my mother did not have to do any of the clean-up because she worked so hard to cook the meal (when he was not cooking). So, he trained us how to do the dishes (no dishwasher) and clean the tables and clean the floors. He also trained us how to clean on the weekends when we did our deep cleaning. Both of my parents were neat-freaks. I have the "curse"!
So, yes, even the heathens can be "kitchen wives".
What does it prove?
"There is Donna Carlaw, cheering Tim on, all the while living a life that Carolyn James would laud for women."
ReplyDeleteLynn,
Exactly. You nailed this. I am always amazed when I read her posts knowing that she is doing the very things these men would gnash their teeth at. And the women who actually are doing what the Baylys and Fr. Bill and Mike McMillan writes about, are the ones called feminists and rebels.
I have gotten to know "Light" a little bit and I am constantly amazed what a woman she is. She supplies me with all sorts of delicious recipes that she prepares for her own family. She is NOTHING what the Baylys have said she was. They need to stop slandering godly women.
The other funny thing is that many of the guys on the CCC-forum who are so very patriarchal to the nth degree, have wives who work and have sent their couple of children to public school.
People in glass houses should not throw stones.
I suppose it's only me, but every time I see "kitchen wife" I think of Amy Tan. Except I just checked for the name of her book, and I see it's "The Kitchen God's Wife." Oops, never mind.
ReplyDelete